[UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal

as we all know MI came up with their own proposal that they submitted to the DNC

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/05/michigan_dems_suggest_co mpromi.php

and as Chris Bowers note just about EVERY High level official in Michigan approved of the plan,

the new deal proposed from the Michigan Democratic Party should be an end to it. Every high-level Michigan Democrat now appears to be behind a 69-59 pledged delegate split, plus seating the superdelegates

and as was diaried earlier the Obama campaign had all but accepted.

we now Hillary has said no
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/

"This proposal does not honor the 600,000 votes that were cast in Michigan's January primary. Those votes must be counted."

well I bet the State of Michigan will be happy that Hillary rejected THEIR plan because she is worried about THEIR voters. It seems Hillary is now telling the State of Michigan they aren't doing enough to help their own voters.

wonder if the State of Michigan will be happy with hillary,

as I said else where

the State of Michigan rejected her proposal of as is and rejected Obama's of 50/50 they came up with their own which was a compromise. Obama accepted.

she did not, the number stays at 2,025 and its not Obama's fault. The State of Michigan came up with this proposal on their own to get their delegates seated and now Hillary is the one who is blocking it.

she is now arguing with the State of Michigan itself over the plan and Obama can sit back and say "we supported the plan that the State of Michigan came up with themselves" not his fault Hillary doesn't like MI's idea, and I bet MI is not happy that once again their attempts to get their delegates seated have now been stopped.

Update [2008-5-8 15:33:59 by TruthMatters]:

MSNBC has a copy of a letter Hillary wrote to Obama, its makes it clear, I want the pop vote and nothing else will be enough.

May 8, 2008

Senator Barack Obama

Obama for America

P.O. Box 8102

Chicago, IL 60680

Dear Senator Obama,

This has been an historic and exciting campaign. Millions of new voters have been brought into the process and their enthusiasm for the Democratic Party and the principles for which you and I have fought and continue to fight is unprecedented.

One of the foremost principles of our party is that citizens be allowed to vote and that those votes be counted. That principle is not currently being applied to the nearly 2.5 million people who voted in primaries in Florida and Michigan. Whoever emerges as the Democratic nominee will be hamstrung in the general election if a fair and quick resolution is not reached that ensures that the voices of these voters are heard. Our commitment now to this goal could be the difference between winning and losing in November.

I have consistently said that the votes cast in Florida and Michigan in January should be counted. We cannot ignore the fact that the people in those states took the time to be a part of this process and to make their preferences known. When efforts were untaken by leaders in those states to hold revotes to ensure that they had a voice in selecting our nominee, I supported those efforts. In Michigan, I supported a legislative effort to hold a revote that the Democratic National Committee said was in complete compliance with the party's rules. You did not support those efforts and your supporters in Michigan publicly opposed them. In Florida a number of revote options were proposed. I am not aware of any that you supported. In 2000, the Republicans won an election by successfully opposing a fair counting of votes in Florida. As Democrats, we must reject any proposals that would do the same.

Your commitment to the voters of these states must be clearly stated and your support for a fair and quick resolution must be clearly demonstrated.

I am asking you to join me in working with representatives from Florida and Michigan and the Democratic National Committee to arrive at a solution that honors the votes of the millions of people who went to the polls in Florida and Michigan. It is not enough to simply seat their representatives at the convention in Denver. The people of these great states, like the people who have voted and are to vote in other states, must have a voice in selecting our party's nominee.

Sincerely,

Hillary Rodham Clinton

well I guess there goes seating Michigan. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/08/997279.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage



Display:


Well that will be it then (2.00 / 4)

Hillary doesn't want a compromise on MI and FL. She wants all the votes. The DNC will never go along with that, so there's no longer any reason for the supers to hold back. She just cut her last lifeline.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:51:35 PM EST

Re: Well that will be it then (2.00 / 3)

exactly there is absolutely no way to attack Obama on this one this is now

Hillary vs. State of Michigan and only serves that she wasn't after getting them seated. only getting what she wanted from them.

I bet their next proposal won't be so much in favor of Hillary.


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well that will be it then (2.00 / 1)

There never was, the Obama camp always said they were willing to work something out, they just were not willing to approve a plan without knowing what it was first.  Hillary people just chose to spin it as he was against seating the delegates.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good (2.00 / 3)

back to the drawing board to figure out the actual votes, not just the delegates.  


by 4justice on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:52:39 PM EST

I doubt it. (2.00 / 2)

Michigan came up with a compromise that was between the Clinton and Obama positions and Hillary rejected it. I think that's about it for Michigan. She's never getting all the delegates, and she doesn't seem to be willing to take less. If what she's shooting for is seating MI and FL as per their illegal counts, then that's not going to be settled before the end of May, and the rules committee is not going to let the two states off without any penalty whatsoever. If this story is true, then I'd say she just lost the high ground on MI and FL.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I doubt it. (2.00 / 2)

A minor quibble...

She never had the high ground.  This has been a political stunt from the get-go, and full of fail.

Why?  Because horseshit like this may impress the voting public to a small degree, but it will not impress superdelegates.  As evidenced by the continuous flow of support to Obama.

"Popular vote" is code for "swaying the superdelegates".  They know what the deal is in MI and FL.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The DNC rules talk an awful lot about (2.00 / 2)

delegates. Can you show me the pop vote clause?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The DNC rules talk an awful lot about (2.00 / 3)

It's right there in the section with Caucus are for Elitists, and Hard Working White Folks are the REAL deciding voters...


"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke, "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke....
by WashStateBlue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The DNC rules talk an awful lot about (none / 0)

I don't see that part either. It all must be up Mark Penn's... you know.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: good (none / 0)

yep - but it was a nice try - non?


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 4)

Damn, she has to accept she won't get the Delegate Split out of MI as it was in January nor the 600.000 + Votes. It just shows how desperate she is.


by Obamafan on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:53:35 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 4)

Good for her


Wisdom Is The Reward For Listening Over A Lifetime
by gunner on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:54:09 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 2)

None of this matters anymore. Even with MI & FL seated full force at the convention, and even if she wins ALL pledged delegates left, Obama only needs 20 or so superdelegates.

MI & FL are wholly irrelevant now.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:54:14 PM EST

do you understand how that sounds? (2.00 / 3)

"Michigan and Florida are irrelevant now"  Way to be inclusive!!!!!!!!  

I guess you plan to win the GE without them.

ps...Obama has not won yet.


by 4justice on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice word twisting. (2.00 / 4)

What he's saying is that even if you sat the delegations as per their illegitimate contests, Hillary still doesn't get the delegates or popular votes she needs.

Michigan delegates need not fear however. Even though Hillary doesn't want to seat them, Obama, as the nominee, will seat them at the convention.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: do you understand how that sounds? (2.00 / 1)

Oh give me a break I was talking about the nomination, not the general election. They are irrelevant to determining the nominee. Care to dispute that?

And I'm confident that Obama will have the foresight and funds to put forth a 50-state strategy.


"If we can't live together... we're going to die alone."
by VAAlex on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Doesn't matter how it "sounds" (2.00 / 1)

Way to over-react. It could also be said that South Dakota and Montana are now irrelevant. It is NOT a slight against those states or those voters, it is a simple declaration of fact regarding the way these votes and delegates will influence the way the nominee is chosen.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama removed his name from the Mi. ballot (2.00 / 1)

therefore, Hillary has every right to insist that all votes cast be represented, and delegates awarded proportionately.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:54:52 PM EST

She can call for whatever she wants, (2.00 / 1)

but even the Republicans punished MI and FL 50%. There is no way they're getting off scott free. She would have been best to take the compromise. Very foolish.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She can call for whatever she wants, (none / 0)

In her "defense", it would be silly campaign strategy to accept a compromise which casts her defeat in stone.  Exactly why she is still running when her tiny chance at the nomination relies on profoundly undemocratic means is another question, however.


by CA Pol Junkie on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:34:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well that argues she doesn't want any settlement, (none / 0)

because even if she gets what she wants for MI and FL at this point she loses. I think she just wants it as an issue to flog.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She can call for whatever she wants, (none / 0)

Point taken.  It would mean certain defeat.  It's only if Obama gets no delegates from Michigan and she gets full from both that she even comes close to his delegate number.

She's lost anyway.  You don't get the nomination for has the second-most amount of delegates.


by The Distillery on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Been through this Stalin! (2.00 / 2)

Rules broken, doesn't count, let it go already!


by LoneStarLefty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Been through this Stalin! (none / 0)

By choosing to leave his name on the Florida ballot after removing it in Michigan, Obama clearly realized he made an error. Following that up by refusing to allow the voters in either state to be recognized, you must realize it's a foregone conclusion he won't win either swing state in the general.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are misinformed (2.00 / 4)

He was unable to remove his name from the Florida ballot.  In order to remove your name from the Florida ballot, you need to be withdrawing entirely as a candidate.  Since he wasn't, he couldn't.


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:10:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok, thanks.. I'll accept what you say (none / 0)

because I really don't know about that, but it dosen't affect the latter half of my comment. The strategy that helped him in the nomination phase with regard to Mi. & Fl. will come back to bite him in the general.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:16:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

in florida... (none / 0)

the secretary of state has the authority to place any major presidential candidate's name on the florida ballot even if they declare they don't want it there (for the primaries).  if you have evidence that kurt browning would have removed obama's name from the ballot if barack had requested it, feel free to post it.

browning did admit (on local television) that he informed one campaign (without specifying which one) that he would not allow their candidate's name to be removed from the january ballot.  but if you have other information, i know i would appreciate hearing it...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:38:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in florida... (none / 0)

I don't have any information about that, sorry.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Been through this Stalin! (2.00 / 2)

So you're all for disenfranchising all Obama supporters in Michigan?? Wow...


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh stop (none / 0)

Quite the opposite. Obama signaled his intention to do that by removing his name from the ballot.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh stop (2.00 / 1)

No he did not - you are twisting the circumstances to fit your agenda and engaging in ridiculous, ingenious, indefensible, spin. Obama was one of several candidates to remove their name form the ballot. It was an orchestrated attempt to punish Michigan for breaking the rules.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:20:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh stop (1.00 / 1)

You would be correct with regard to Obama, IF he had also removed his name from the ballot in Florida, which he did not do. I'm not trying to spin anything. He removed his name when it suited his purposes to do so, left it on when it didn't. His priority 'concern' was clearly gaining political advantage.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are misinformed. (none / 0)

Rules in Florida are different.  One cannot remain a candidate for office, yet take oneself off the ballot.  Obama pursued this, then like all the others, realized it was not legally feasible to get off the FL ballot without ending his candidacy completely there.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are misinformed. (none / 0)

What I said, and what you had to say are not mutually exclusive comments. I realize the price he would have paid to repeat his Mi. gesture.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh stop (none / 0)

NO ONE removed their name from the FL ballot. This wasn't just about Obama... it was about the entire Democratic field of candidates and how they chose to react to a violation of the rules set by the DNC.

Besides - Obama would have fared much better in MI than FL - so why didn't he remove his name in FL and keep it on in MI (not that he even could remove his name in FL, but you don't seem to care about that fact).


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh stop (2.00 / 1)

On the contrary - the MDP signaled their willingness to bet their voters' enfranchisement on the DNC not sticking to its guns and enforcing the rules.  They made a wager with the people's rights and they lost; it is now the job of grassroots Democrats in Michigan to ensure that new leadership is put in place in the MDP - leadership that won't go making bets with chips that aren't theirs.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Been through this Stalin! (2.00 / 2)

Michigan violated the rules even more aggressively than Florida. Besides, Obama was not the only candidate to remove his name form the ballot.

Anybody remember John Edwards? He too removed his name from the ballot. They were taking a stand against a flagrant violation of the rules. Clinton chose not to take a stand... and it turns out it didn't do much good for her afterall.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is more intellectually honest (2.00 / 2)

to say that "among the Democratic candidates, only Senator Clinton did not try to take her name off the Michigan ballot."  I know that doesn't help Senator Clinton's narrative, but it's nearer to the truth.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is more intellectually honest (none / 0)

I rec'd your comment because I'm all for intellectual honesty, but please know I was not trying to be anything less than that myself.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The fact is that Hillary waited to see that (2.00 / 1)

everyone else removed their name, as was expected, and then she kept hers on. Junior High move.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So did Al Gore in 2000. (2.00 / 1)

What's your point?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just more proof (2.00 / 2)


   that she's not interested in seating the delegation. She's only interested in improving her delegate total. After that, to hell with it.

  Just more proof of what I've been saying all along.


by southernman on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:56:20 PM EST

Re: Just more proof (2.00 / 2)

not even the delegate total she knows she lost that, she wants the pop vote.

but more importantly it is now Hillary is blocking the seating of MI and I bet the state democrats are calling her right now.


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just more proof (2.00 / 2)

She can have the popular vote. No one wants to or can take that away form her. Popular votes are not 'seated' at the convention. popular votes are not determined by a rules committee. The nomination process DOES NOT IN ANY WAY count the popular vote. She could say she won a million-billion votes in Michigan and no one would argue with her - because no one cares.

The supers can, of course, feel free to consider the popular vote in whatever way they see fit.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:22:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just more proof (2.00 / 1)

Sorry - Didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Apparently "count every vote" (2.00 / 1)

was just rhetoric.  This development is going to get a cold reception from the remaining superdelegates.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:07:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 3)

Wow.


John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way
by bosdcla14 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:59:26 PM EST

Every proposal that Obama (none / 0)

embraces gives him delegates he did not earn.  Why should Hillary accept it?  If Obama is all so spit certain he will be the nominee, why not just let Michigan's delegates be what Michiganders voted to have happen.


Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!
by Beltway Dem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:59:51 PM EST

So you're for 128-0 Clinton? (2.00 / 2)

Someday you'll feel bad about advocating such a travesty.  It might take some hindsight.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, (2.00 / 1)

I wish the Clinton supporters would have SOME sympathy for the Obama supporters in Michigan who were disenfranchised when they were told their primary wouldn't count and their preferred candidate removed his name from the ballot.


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You mean the ones who were encouraged (1.50 / 2)

by Obama to vote uncommitted so as to embarrass Hillary. Your rewrite of history is quite humorous. He removed his name from the ballot, not because "the primary wouldn't count." He removed his name from the ballot, as did Edwards and Richards, to show loyalty to Iowa and New Hampshire. If you'll remember, Hillary was the likely candidate back then and this was a calculated risk to sacrifice many potential delegates in a blatant pander to Iowa and New Hampshire. Please don't try to make it sound as if Obama's motives were oh so noble. They weren't.


Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.
by Rumarhazzit on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will say it once again, (none / 0)

how about some sympathy for Obama supporters in Michigan?  Giving him zero for that election disenfranchises them entirely.

And let's not get into the nobility of motives; shall I play you the clip of Clinton acknowledging that Michigan won't count?


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:22:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You mean the ones who were encouraged (2.00 / 1)

"You mean the ones who were encouraged by Obama to vote uncommitted so as to embarrass Hillary."

Jesus, is there ANYTHING that isn't an outrageous personal attack on Senator Clinton to you folks?


"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke, "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke....
by WashStateBlue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You mean the ones who were encouraged (2.00 / 1)

Obama asking for any votes is an outrageous personal attack on Sen. Clinton.  Clearly he's saying she wouldn't be as good a choice for president as he would be.  Every time he asks for people's votes, he's saying people shouldn't vote for Clinton - clearly trying to embarrass her by beating her in elections.  How dare he?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Except...um, no. (2.00 / 1)

"encouraged by Obama to vote uncommitted so as to embarrass Hillary."

Can you enlighten me as to what specifically Senator Obama said?  My memory must be bad.

Regardless, I don't see why the 40%+ who were uncommitted now deserve to be disenfranchised and have their votes go to Senator Clinton.  That would seem to be inconsistent with team Clinton's purported goal of "counting all the votes."


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:28:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every proposal that Obama (2.00 / 1)

Except there was not an ELECTION in MI. Without a 'contest' it was little more then a poll. The right answer is that MI and FL get NO delegates.....only GE politics is insisting on a compromise....not Hillary's ambition sorry.


by JoeCoaster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Every proposal that Obama (2.00 / 1)

You think no one wanted to vote for Obama in MI?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:20:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How will this be spun here... (2.00 / 1)

...as being Obama's fault?  

There's no way that the party is going to flip the election based on Michigan.  There would be riots and no one who didn't already support Clinton would see her nomination as legitimate.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:00:34 PM EST

Obama rejected as is? (2.00 / 1)

He's got the nomination locked up, it would be a great political move, why doesn't he do it? It makes him look small.

He needs to look beyond November and think about long term party-building. He will need Congress as majority Dems for his presidency.


by catfish1 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:00:41 PM EST

Re: Obama rejected as is? (2.00 / 1)

So what you are really pushing for is that all Obama voters should be disregarded or using "the word of the campaign" disenfranchised?


I'm Ready For A Good Old GOP & John McCain Ass Kickin'!!!
by hootie4170 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think Senator Clinton realizes (2.00 / 2)

how entirely sick of this the MI legislature is.  Three separate attempts to schedule a re-vote failed.  This has taken tons of time, caused lots of embarrassment, and potentially disenfranchised an entire state.

It was work to arrive at this compromise.  Senator Clinton could at least have considered it, but she replied immediately "no deal."  I don't think a better deal for her will ever be forthcoming from MI.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:01:15 PM EST

Re: I don't think Senator Clinton realizes (none / 0)

Ya. Why didn't she just tell them in advance that it was her way or the highway, and save them all the trouble. I know why of course. She didn't expect them to reach a compromise. I'm sure this'll play well on the evening news.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:34:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 3)

This is like the abortion issue for Karl Rove?

The Clinton campaign doesn't want this settled, because SOMETHING has to keep feeding the troops, some outrage, something to hang on to?

If this off the table, what will all the Clinton Jihadists around here keep throwing on the table?

She doesn't care if who she pisses off in MI or anywhere else, it's the bunker mentality writ large?

Means, the end is rapidly approaching, so there is nothing to lose by compromising on anything, because that brings the end nearer.


"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke, "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke....
by WashStateBlue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:01:48 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 2)

The Clintons are dead in the water.  The democrats are going to have to crush her.  She will not go quietly.  I pick tomorrow as the day to do it.


by Spanky on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:02:15 PM EST

I'm afraid you're right. (2.00 / 1)

If she doesn't start playing "elbows in," she needs to be benched.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

she did right thing. she will prevail or MI will be be in GOP's column


Welcome to a Landslide without white Working class, Latinos, Women, Seniors and holding-on sweeties
by engels on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:02:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 2)

Exactly.

Engels, check the polls in MI? If they were SOOOOO mad at Obama, why is he winning there?


"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke, "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke....
by WashStateBlue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 2)

well you know MI media will report that MI proposed a plan and Hillary turned it down.

will be interesting what MI voters will think of Hillary if the media starts reporting she is blocking their delegations now.


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:15:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The terrorists have already won. (2.00 / 1)

Splendid.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Al Gore took his name off the ballot (2.00 / 1)

in MI in 2000 and won MI in the GE. I doubt MI voters are going to freak out about it one way or the other.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 3)

<snark>Why, oh why, is Clinton blocking the seating of MI?! The votes must be counted! Doesn't she care about democracy??!</snark>


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:03:06 PM EST

See, here's the thing (2.00 / 1)

The entire Michigan result is tainted.  The voters were told beforehand that the primary would not be counted.  The candidates (including Clinton) acknowledged this and pledged not to participate or campaign in the state.  Major candidates removed their names from the ballot.

How can anyone look at that result and, with a straight face, argue that it represents a democratic result?

I have no strong preference on the exact breakdown of delegates, but something fairly equitable is warranted.  Pretending that the actual votes counted have substantive democratic value is dishonest.


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:13:08 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 2)

Of course she did.  If she accepted the Michigan compromise, there wouldn't be any reason for her not to accept a similar compromise in Florida - and without Michigan and Florida still up in the air, her rationale for continuing becomes even more outlandish than it already is.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:13:56 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 1)

Take a step back, and this is actually a fair deal.  The split assumes that in a MI primary Clinton would have beat Obama by 8 points.  If anything that's slightly generous.  MI is in the rust belt but also has Detroit.  Clinton would never have racked up a higher % of the vote than she did in Ohio or Pennsylvania.

Of course, if Clinton took this deal she'd be that much closer to conceding, and her diehard supporters would have to give up this fantasy that Clinton would have won if it weren't for MI and FL.  Thank god this race only has a few more weeks to go.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:17:33 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 1)

This is a perfect example of why superdelegates are not flocking to endorse her.

They would have to seriously consider: Do we as a party really want to put up with her bs for the next eight years?

That alone will drive supers to Barack...along with his many other positives.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:19:14 PM EST

Not a great move on her part (2.00 / 2)

She really doesn't have much leverage to be demanding these things anymore.  The proposed delegate split seems reasonable.


by lombard on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:22:22 PM EST

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

I don't understand. Obama supporters Michigan and Florida be stripped of their delegates, their primary votes not be recognized, rules are rules, etc.

Now they're falling over themselves supporting this?


by Michael Begala on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:31:09 PM EST

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)


   I don't understand!! Hillary demanded the delegations be sat, now she's refusing that offer!

 


by southernman on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

Hey, I'm fine with us sticking to the rules too, but I'm willing to take a minor sacrifice of counting an unfair election if it reduces tension.


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not supporting, Accepting. (none / 0)

Obama supporters didn't come up with the idea that FL and MI should be stripped of its delegates.  Many (erm, like me) were genuinely bothered when the DNC took this step before the primary season got going.

Do you know when Clinton lost my vote, though?  When she chose to make Florida and Michigan her cause celebre the weekend before the Florida primary.  Up until then I was genuinely on the fence, but got flashbacks of 90s cheap demagoguery.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:46:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

I actually think they should be stripped of their delegates according to the rules, though in practice this never really happens; sanctioned states always get seated once the nomination is clinched.

But I still think it's hilarious how quickly Clinton's principled stand fell apart once a substantive proposal was put on the table.


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:48:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Senator Clinton fails Language Arts. (none / 0)

Your commitment to the voters of these states must be clearly stated and your support for a fair and quick resolution must be clearly demonstrated.

I believe Senator Obama quickly supported the fair resolution that Michigan Democrats came up with.  Senator Clinton should read this back to herself instead.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:34:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (2.00 / 0)

Before this I felt she should be humored and allowed to go on to save face. But with this stance I feel the SDs should go ahead an embarrass the heck out of her and go for Obama en masse and make it obvious she is toast. I hope her crowds get smaller and smaller and the media keeps crowding her out of the conversation. I don't think she'll be in this much longer.


by Becky G on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:35:30 PM EST

You feel the SDs (2.00 / 1)

should go ahead an embarrass the heck out of her, and yet, clearly they haven't, because if they had decided against her, Obama would be on national TV with the news at this very moment.


Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!
by Beltway Dem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:51:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You feel the SDs (none / 0)

Embarrassing her isn't tactically good even if it's called for.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, given that about (2.00 / 1)

half the party has voted for her, I suppose it would be impolitic to embarrass her.


Another Hillary Supporter for Obama!
by Beltway Dem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah pretty much. (none / 0)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I love this line from Clinton: (none / 0)

"We cannot ignore the fact that the people in those states took the time to be a part of this process and to make their preferences known."

We can, however, apparently ignore the fact that Michigan voters were largely denied the right to make their preferences known when most major candidates (other than Clinton) were not even on the ballot.


by Slim Tyranny on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:38:33 PM EST

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

Their proposal is ridiculous giving the outcome of the primary, that is why she rejected it. Unless they count the votes what is the purpose in the delegate count, what difference is that going to make? Obama wents weeks, even months rejecting every proposal out there for Michigan and Florida, and now he wants to accept, of course realizing that it won't affect the outcome any for him. Come ON!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:39:46 PM EST

"Count all the votes." (2.00 / 1)

Senator Clinton completely torpedoed this argument today by holding out for every delegate rather than accepting Michigan Democrats' compromise.

Saying Senator Clinton should receive all 128 delegates from MI might score you a few points among friends here at MyDesperateDelusion, but it will make superdelegates scowl.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:43:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

Wow!  I am sure this makes Clinton just super duper popular in Michigan now.  The Supers and the DNC must be just overjoyed by this too.  Love!  Love and warm fuzzies!


by rf7777 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:40:48 PM EST

There's no reason to reargue MI and FL (2.00 / 1)

The only new piece of information here is that Hillary has refused a compromise for MI that was favorable to her, halfway between Obama's position and her position, and to which Obama agreed. She is now the one preventing Michigan voters from being heard.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:43:37 PM EST

Re: There's no reason to reargue MI and FL (none / 0)

Are we surprised by this? really?

I do hope they finish her off. I am beginning to hope this ends her career in the Senate too, because of the way she is acting now.

If the shoe was on the other foot, HRC supporters would be FURIOUS at Obama.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's no reason to reargue MI and FL (none / 0)

"If the shoe was on the other foot, HRC supporters would be FURIOUS at Obama."

It would NEVER have gotten to this point.

Obama would have dropped out, if Hillary won 11 in a row.


"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke, "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke....
by WashStateBlue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:06:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You gotta laugh... (none / 0)

You gotta laugh at how off in a different universe some of the public statements of the Clinton campaign are sometimes.

I have consistently said that the votes cast in Florida and Michigan in January should be counted.

Well I suppose you've been consistent since mid January but the record grows more hazy before that...

Your commitment to the voters of these states must be clearly stated and your support for a fair and quick resolution must be clearly demonstrated.

Uh.... didn't he just demonstrate his support for a fair and quick resolution by agreeing to this plan?


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:14:21 PM EST

Who is not counting the votes now...hahaha (none / 0)

What hypocrisy..watch out..sniper fire coming in!


by netgui68 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought she wanted them seated (none / 0)

every vote to count...what is the problem?


by netgui68 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:29:18 PM EST

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

I don't understand why we can't simply give Obama the undecided delegates. Clinton won MI. Was it fair, that is debatable, but this plan takes away delegates from Clinton and gives it to Obama who purposefully and knowingly removed his name from the MI ballot. Give Clinton the delegates she earned and let Obama have the undecided delegates. If Obama is so sure he is going to win this thing, then there is nothing to lose.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:21:14 PM EST

Re: [UPDATE]:Hillary rejects MI's Proposal (none / 0)

Count all the votes. Give Hillary her share of delegates from Michigan. Split the rest of the undeclared delegates to the candidates who removed their names from the ballot. These delegates can go undeclared to the convention. Would that be fair?


by hidesrtdav on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:52:10 AM EST


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