Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Take-All

well that right there explains why she lost.

Times went over the 5 mistakes that the Clintons made

http://www.time.com/time/politics/articl e/0,8599,1738331,00.html

I think the 2 that really did it for her

2. She didn't master the rules
Clinton picked people for her team primarily for their loyalty to her, instead of their mastery of the game. That became abundantly clear in a strategy session last year, according to two people who were there. As aides looked over the campaign calendar, chief strategist Mark Penn confidently predicted that an early win in California would put her over the top because she would pick up all the state's 370 delegates. It sounded smart, but as every high school civics student now knows, Penn was wrong: Democrats, unlike the Republicans, apportion their delegates according to vote totals, rather than allowing any state to award them winner-take-all. Sitting nearby, veteran Democratic insider Harold M. Ickes, who had helped write those rules, was horrified -- and let Penn know it. "How can it possibly be," Ickes asked, "that the much vaunted chief strategist doesn't understand proportional allocation?" And yet the strategy remained the same, with the campaign making its bet on big-state victories. Even now, it can seem as if they don't get it. Both Bill and Hillary have noted plaintively that if Democrats had the same winner-take-all rules as Republicans, she'd be the nominee. Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign now acknowledges privately:

3. She underestimated the caucus states
While Clinton based her strategy on the big contests, she seemed to virtually overlook states like Minnesota, Nebraska and Kansas, which choose their delegates through caucuses. She had a reason: the Clintons decided, says an adviser, that "caucus states were not really their thing." Her core supporters -- women, the elderly, those with blue-collar jobs -- were less likely to be able to commit an evening of the week, as the process requires. But it was a little like unilateral disarmament in states worth 12% of the pledged delegates. Indeed, it was in the caucus states that Obama piled up his lead among pledged delegates. "For all the talent and the money they had over there," says Axelrod, "they -- bewilderingly -- seemed to have little understanding for the caucuses and how important they would become."

By the time Clinton's lieutenants realized the grave nature of their error, they lacked the resources to do anything about it -- in part because:

make no mistake her Husband won TWICE under these rules, there is no excuse for her campaign NOT to be filled with people who 100% knew how to work this system. Bill should have been there explaining the importance of caucuses, at least he should have known.

to bad Penn was contracted so she has to pay that $4 million, because that man should not be allowed around Democratic politics again.



Display:


This is unbelievable (2.00 / 2)

And then they talk about electability! The gigantic failure of this campaign will be taught in courses for a long time in the future.


by hania on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:44:50 AM EST

Re: This is unbelievable (2.00 / 2)

yeah it was pretty much screwed from the start, just wow, Penn should have been dropped from the start. Sadly had she faced ANYONE but Obama, these problems probably never would have surfaced as she would have won.

I bet Penn never gets work again with a democrat.


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

True Dat (none / 0)

and without Bush, there would have been no Obama campaign. at least not this campaign.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:51:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is unbelievable (2.00 / 1)

That is exactly what I was thinking. People will learn from this.


by Politicalslave on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You have to be kidding (2.00 / 1)

This boggles the mind.

... although it does bring the comment about not understanding the Texas system until two weeks before the primary into sharper focus ...


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:48:03 AM EST

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (2.00 / 1)

Mark Penn was stupid, he is a great manager vs Republicans.

Mark Penn + Democratic Primary = Disaster


by Jaz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:48:21 AM EST

Wow... (2.00 / 1)

Just wow.

How could someone running for president not know what every single person on this board knew?  Makes me wonder what else her advisers would tell her...


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:51:27 AM EST

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (2.00 / 2)

There will be endless books written about the fall of the clintons in this after math.
by Cheebs on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:57:47 AM EST

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (2.00 / 2)

I'm definitely downloading Penn's, couldn't stand to give him money for it.


by grass on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:11:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (2.00 / 1)

Is Penn dirty enough to try to take advantage of Hillary's failed campaign to make a buck off a book deal? I dunno if he is that dirty.


by Cheebs on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:13:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (none / 0)

Hello? Penn has to defend himself against other who would try to scapegoat his micro-trends strategy.

I wonder if there's more people in the Obama campaign or the Clinton campaign that dislike him. I honestly don't know.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

More In Clinton's (none / 0)

... they all won't work in DC again.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:54:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More In Clinton's (none / 0)

Thank god, but unfortunatly I don't know of any middle class chief strategists.

I might be generalizing but I beleive most are millionaires.

Penn could retire tommorow, or just work for foreign governments like Carville did.

My guess is Penn is going to be working with his buddy Dick Morris on Hannity and Fox soon.

He def has the look  :)

It's funny how many people have and will lose jobs because of this election.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:19:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Around the time of the potomac primaries (none / 0)

Penn was doing a book signing...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:40:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (none / 0)

I think the answer to any question that begins with "is Mark Penn dirty enough" is usually going to be..."yes."


by Progressive Witness on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (2.00 / 2)

make no mistake her Husband won TWICE under these rules, there is no excuse for her campaign NOT to be filled with people who 100% knew how to work this system. Bill should have been there explaining the importance of caucuses, at least he should have known.

Was Bill Clinton challenged in the primaries for re-election?

Bill Clinton had one heck of a team working for him in 1991 and 1992.  Hillary, not so much.


by Dave B on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:01:50 AM EST

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (2.00 / 2)

doesn't matter my point is Bill has been through these rules, Hillary was there, they have no excuse to have their Chief Strategist just a few months before actual voting begins, still thinking its winner take all.

I mean how in the world did he even apply for the job?


Congratulations to Barack Obama, the presumptive Presumptive Democratic Nominee
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem Primaries Were Winner-Ta (none / 0)

Probably based upon past results. Penn was deeply involved in a highly successful presidnetial campaign before, so probably he felt himself up for the job and there was no reason to doubt this based upon past performance.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Penn (2.00 / 2)

Should go into a pile of pile who should not be listened to any more. Shrum, Brazile, and Trippi ought to go into this pile as well.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:06:50 AM EST

Re: Penn (none / 0)

Cause they all lost? I wonder if Obama wins will David Axelrod be seen as the true genius of Dem politics and totally overshadow what Carville did?
by Cheebs on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:14:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn (none / 0)

if obama wins is referring to the general of course
by Cheebs on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:15:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn (none / 0)

Not because they lost, but they have all exhibited enormous amounts of cluelessness and havne't won much of anything. Brazile had to be fired from the Dukakis campaign, which took some doing and was horrible with Gore too. Shrums something like o for ten. Trippi's whole strategy for Edwards was completely asshated. Penn's woes are well illustrated in the diary.


by Mayor McCheese on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:24:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Penn (none / 0)

With the first viable female, black, and Hispanic candidates in the race Edwards, the white guy from the South, stood little chance in this contest centered on change regardless of what Trippi did.  I wouldn't be so hard on Trippi.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:25:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pennie, (2.00 / 2)

you're doing a heck of a job!


Beat McCain!
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:10:53 AM EST

Goes to her judgement (2.00 / 1)

She also thought Bush would know how to run a war.  


by crabby tom in md on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:29:13 AM EST

Shocking... (2.00 / 1)

I really find this hard to believe. What was someone so blatantly stupid doing within 100 miles of a presidential campaign? Why wasn't he fired on the spot?

After 8 years of Bush it is hard to believe that Hillary would value loyalty so much over basic competence. Was she not paying attention to what has gotten us in so much trouble.

Clinton supporters (and I know there are many here) would do well to direct their "bitterness" at Penn rather than at the Democratic nominee. This race was hers to lose, and she lost it because she had a complete and total buffoon running her campaign.

Penn thought the whole thing would be wrapped up after Super Tuesday, and when it wasn't the Clinton campaign had absolutely no plan. They had no ground game in all the states where she got her butt kicked by Obama.

This is "Exhibit A" as to why (all her crowing about experience aside) Obama will be a far better President than Clinton. She had every advantage going into this thing, and lost because she ran a bad campaign while Obama ran a very smart one.


by rebop on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:34:49 AM EST

Re: Mark Penn Thought Dem (2.00 / 1)

The funny thing about CA is, I don't even think it was technically winner-take-all for the Republicans.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:15:57 AM EST


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